Are games an art?

[Kiss x Miz]

Were they actually trying to create art that is video games, though?

Have you seen anything related to Guild Wars 2 yet? Everything looks like it's painted.

[CarolineJohnson]

Were they actually trying to create art that is video games, though?

Have you seen anything related to Guild Wars 2 yet? Everything looks like it's painted.

I don't like Guild Wars, therefore I don't even know what the first game looks like.

[BloodcatNS]

FLOWER! FLOWER DAMNIT!

[CarolineJohnson]

FLOWER! FLOWER DAMNIT!

I already suggested that when I said thatgamecompany.

[NekoJonez]

Okami. Already mentioned but still...
Limbo... That's one nice game too...

[CarolineJohnson]

Already mentioned but still...

Since we're mentioning already mentioned games, here is a list.

• Okami (PS2/Wii)
• Okamiden (NDS)
• flOw (PC/PS3)
• Flower (PS3)
• Journey (PS3)
• Limbo (360/PS3/PC/Mac)
• ilomilo (360/Windows Phone 7)
• Soul Bubbles (NDS)
• Shadow of the Colossus (PS2/PS3)
• ICO (PS2/PS3)
• LittleBigPlanet (PS3/PSP)
• LittleBigPlanet 2 (PS3)
• Mario Paint (SNES)
• Rhythm Heaven (NDS)
• Rhythm Heaven Fever (Wii)
• WarioWare: Do it Yourself (NDS)
• The Path (PC)
• Myst (PC/Mac/Saturn/PS1/3DO/Jaguar/CDi/Amiga/PSP/NDS/iOS/3DS)
• Riven: The Sequel to Myst (PC/Mac/PS1/Saturn/PocketPC)
• Myst III: Exile (PC/Mac/Xbox/PS2)
• Myst IV: Revelations (PC/Mac/Xbox)
• Myst V: End of Ages (PC/Mac)
• Uru: Ages Beyond Myst (PC)
• Audiosurf (PC/Zune)
• Bastion (PC/Mac/360/Chrome)
• From Dust (PC/360/PS3/Chrome)

[NekoJonez]

What about Electroplankton for the NDS? Not really a game game but it's art non the less in my opinion.

[senpai_FisT]

Bumping this.

It would pretentious to call myself a developer right now, so I'll just call myself a disciple in the game developing scene. I've been reading articles and books by famous and accomplished developers. There is huge difference in mentality of a gamer and a developer. Game devs consider games a product and the process of developing it as a service than making art. Whereas gamers take it and commences a "Game are art!!!" fight. Game developing is more akin to carpentry than an artist painting on his canvas or a musician writing symphonies. Arts & Crafts often gets lumped together, but they are quite different. Carpentry is more of a craft. You can put art into into it by chiseling the armrests and legs into intricate shapes but it's purpose remains the same--a seat to place your arse on. At the end of the day, it's no longer a chair if you can't sit properly on it. Then there are chairs which are chiseled to such a degree that even the seat is art. They don't serve their original purpose, now their purpose is purely to act as a medium of art.

That's where we get the fine line between game and art. A game that has little or no focus on gameplay but purely on it's artistic aspects, mainly it's story, music and artwork. Limbo is not art. It's a fine platformer with a noir like art design, much like the chair with a stable seat but artistically designed armrests I mentioned earlier. Whether a game is considered art is decided by its emphasis of art than its use of art. Corpse Party IS art. With it's emphasis on story, art, music and VA. What will happen is a division in the gaming scene. You'll have videogames and you'll have an arthouse gaming scene. You already have an arthouse scene but it's not as developed right now.

The main offenders in perpetrating this are:-
>Gamers who seek acceptance from people who dismissed them as "children".
>People who think art is the pinnacle of something's existence, or the universally accepted standard of something being profound by default. This one by far, I believe.
>Shigeru Miyamoto. I love him and his contribution to videogames, but people need to realize he only introduced art to videogames (Which was an important step in videogame history) and pushed it to the public, not make art itself. Maybe I should just write Nintendo fanboys, but hell.
>Your mother. Hue hue hue hue

TL;DR - Videogames can be a medium of art but it loses its defining qualities as a game in the process.  Essentially, it turns into art in a computer program. Also, many games that are considered art are actually, in fact, not.

P.S, famous people who disagree with games are art:-

>Roger Ebert: Well, this guy's not from the game industry, so I would take his input with a grain of salt.
>Shigeru Miyamoto: Needs no introduction. Nintendo fanboys touch themselves to a poster of Miyamoto every night.
>John Carmack: Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake. Father of modern FPS. Fans of modern FPS don't even know who this guy is since they're busy fucking your mom and doing 360 no scopes. Swag.
>Hideo Kojima: Creator and director of Metal Gear, which fanboys widely regard as "art".

[NekoJonez]

Well actually the video for Nostalgia Critic sums up pretty much with what I think.

[BloodcatNS]

TL;DR - Videogames can be a medium of art but it loses its defining qualities as a game in the process.  Essentially, it turns into art in a computer program. Also, many games that are considered art are actually, in fact, not.

The use of "art" in your argument feels rather subjective, if you don't mind me saying. (Then again, aren't all arguments?) But what really made me react in your statement is the fact that you said "many games that are considered art are actually, in fact, not.". It seems to say that the definition of art has some sort of guideline for it to be considered as such. Really, there isn't. Just like literature. Literature, which in itself is form of art, can be summed up as any written work in a certain time, place or language; basically, any writings that says anything about a culture. If that's so, then regardless of what the actual developers think, whether they like it or not, their games are forms of art, expressed by skill and imagination (Which, the latter isn't expressed much, unfortunately. We're plagued by endless waves of sequels.)

[BloodcatNS]

Well actually the video for Nostalgia Critic sums up pretty much with what I think.

We can't argue with something that some of us might not bother to watch.

[NekoJonez]

Well, I talked to FiST and he said that what Doug said was pretty much what FiST wrote here.

[senpai_FisT]

Well, I am being subjective about it. While "the arts" is a broad spectrum that technically anything includes by the human creative impulse, "art" is defined by its focus in its visual aesthetics. Literature is not art, it's part of "the arts". Same goes for music, film, drama and videogames.

The only thing that "Games are art!" says about you is that you're a graphics whore. Videogames started off purely as a craft. A means to a product that you can interact with and entertain yourself. During the mid 80's, games started being influenced by the arts. So I guess it's safe to call the current videogame industry an industry of applied arts.

Applied arts =/= Fine arts

[O:\msg]

Of course games are art. Not only do some look stunning but they tell a story, make you think and can affect your emotions too.

[NekoJonez]

I think I wrote an article on ButtonSmashers about this.